tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post2849403959386550202..comments2023-10-29T06:55:44.360-04:00Comments on Power to the People: Manufacture of Dissent in Revolution Newspaper: Black Tokenism and White Guiltblackstonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06486087989322216502noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-27331246161012895152008-02-15T09:32:00.000-05:002008-02-15T09:32:00.000-05:00thanks for your comments daniel and the insight yo...thanks for your comments daniel and the insight your provided.<BR/><BR/>Renegade, can you go a little more into the old RCP line regarding affirmative action. I am not aware of it.blackstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486087989322216502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-70638052808596404442008-02-14T10:51:00.000-05:002008-02-14T10:51:00.000-05:00Renegade eye: "The old line of RCP, was affirmativ...Renegade eye: "The old line of RCP, was affirmative action divides the working class. That kept them isolated from black struggles in the late 1970s. I doubt if they changed their line."<BR/><BR/>I agree with that. Affirmative action, and all other multiculturalist strategies, increases racialism. That is why Antifascist Action (AFA), Red Action, and the Independent Working Class Association (IWCA) in Britain are against multiculturalism and affirmative action. It divides our country, promotes racialism, and doesn't even help the black working class, it just creates a New Class-educated black elite of professionals. <BR/><BR/>See this article:<BR/><BR/>http://libcom.org/library/seperatism-accident-or-design-red-actionEnglish republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16640500000189617893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-88513542657791901982008-02-14T10:46:00.000-05:002008-02-14T10:46:00.000-05:00A blow at white guilt sounds like my cup of tea! Q...A blow at white guilt sounds like my cup of tea! Quite honestly, I believe that 80 percent of the crap race-relations issue can be put down to manufactured white guilt. If you can't be comfortable and proud of who are as a white person, you won't be able to interact with blacks as fellow equals. White liberals are the worst racists I've come across because their world-view is warped by (self-hating) racialism. The unabashedly white seem to get on with blacks much better, just from personal experience. For instance, in working class areas where white guilt is around zero, you'll see many more interracial couples, etc. <BR/><BR/>Middle-class liberals, on the other hand, are too afraid of being racist or "privileged" to associate with blacks except in an apologetic and submissive way. To sort of paraphrase Bakunin, power screws up human relationships both ways. <BR/><BR/>Whites and blacks should treat each other as equals. No "white skin privilege", no "white guilt", etc. It's poisonous.English republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16640500000189617893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-41613521555259323172008-02-13T09:18:00.000-05:002008-02-13T09:18:00.000-05:00I think so jim because in the north it's more inst...I think so jim because in the north it's more institutionalized racism ,whereas in the South it was more outright in blatant. Coupled with economic factors, and socio-cultural it isn't odd to see same groups living together after being barred from white neighborhoods..blackstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486087989322216502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-11112951864243900772008-02-12T07:14:00.000-05:002008-02-12T07:14:00.000-05:00I'm not saying that learning lessons from others i...I'm not saying that learning lessons from others is not valuable - I think you're right Phil. I suppose I'm concerned sometimes when it seems like we're losing sight of the bigger picture.<BR/><BR/>BS: I think you're right that the history of segregation has a deep impact - but does that really explain hispanic neighbourhoods in the north for instance? I don't know enough about American history to say unfortunately.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-90925724724710926012008-02-11T10:31:00.000-05:002008-02-11T10:31:00.000-05:00Being an inveterate sectarian I always think there...Being an inveterate sectarian I always think there's plenty of learn from the theory and practice of existing socialist groups, regardless of their size. Sadly most revolutionary groups are case studies in how *not* to do things. The RCP is one of them and overall I thought this was an interesting article on one of the main US left groups. Just one question though, what is it with their rather bizarre personality cult around Chairman Bob?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-59775679595225387192008-02-07T10:08:00.000-05:002008-02-07T10:08:00.000-05:00jim, i think RCP cannot be readily dimissed or ign...jim, i think RCP cannot be readily dimissed or ignored. it can be used as a case study to show how and why the RCP remains predominately white even though it claims to have forged deep ties or won over segments of black population.<BR/><BR/>Yes the US has disenfranchised Black Americans and seperated itself from them for centuries. Of course there was a time period called Segregation. Where certain institutions or public facilities were 'white only'. Once you realize this wasnt that long ago and that are grandparents or parents lived during this time, its not hard to see how those feelings may still be perputated.blackstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486087989322216502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-48267651835077784292008-02-05T14:52:00.000-05:002008-02-05T14:52:00.000-05:00I think I agree with Ren's second point - there ar...I think I agree with Ren's second point - there are serious issues here and we might be better off discussing those rather than a small, ineffectual group of (probably) well intentioned socialists.<BR/><BR/>My impression is that the US is far more divided along racial lines than the UK is (where I live) with black and white split into different neighbourhoods, far less dating and friendships between the groups - and, to be honest, even the whole idea of black and white communities seems a bit abstract here where we are very mixed.<BR/><BR/>I'm not claiming there's no racism here - of course not - but the US seems particularly polarised. Do you think that's true - and if so, why might it be that way?Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-72159644141892236282008-02-05T01:47:00.000-05:002008-02-05T01:47:00.000-05:00The old line of RCP, was affirmative action divide...The old line of RCP, was affirmative action divides the working class. That kept them isolated from black struggles in the late 1970s. I doubt if they changed their line.<BR/><BR/>Why talk about Maoist popular fronters?Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-39141456053356183602008-02-04T21:45:00.000-05:002008-02-04T21:45:00.000-05:00In the article i said "The RCP Draft Programme sta...In the article i said "The RCP Draft Programme states that the Party will "need tens of thousands of organized ties", yet the Party has failed to "have forged deeper ties with the masses" which it vehemently claims."<BR/><BR/>I said the Party state is will NEED tens of thousands of ties, i never said that the rcp claimed to have those ties. However, the RCP does claim to have forged deep ties with the masses", which is not true.<BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter is, he still uses patronizing language towards whites, whether he justifies it or not.<BR/><BR/>The fact of the matter is, false consciousness knows no racial boundaries. Blacks, asians, hispanics, whites will all say ignorant things and hold reactionary views. Yet, i haven't seen RCP calling blacks "stupid black people" or hispanics "stupid hispanic people". Do the RCP struggle with blacks and hispanics for holding reactionary views?Yes, but they exclude harsh tones towards them and reserve that for white people.<BR/><BR/>Do white people deserve to be talked to in this manner? This is the matter we are investigating now. Because patronizing and offensive tones can do the opposite of what you or the RCP hopes to do, bring white people closer to ending oppression.blackstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486087989322216502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-80314408672006997882008-02-04T21:21:00.000-05:002008-02-04T21:21:00.000-05:00I think this post is way off, and also misleading....I think this post is way off, and also misleading. <BR/><BR/>The "stupid white people" should be put in context first of all. Avakian says:<BR/><BR/>"you've got a lot of these stupid white people who write letters to editors in papers like the USA Today and say ignorant things like: "What is all this complaining about slavery --what about the Africans who owned slaves?" Or: "My parents came here from Europe and we never owned any slaves..." All this kind of nonsense that betrays, at a minimum, a woeful ignorance of the horror of slavery and white supremacy and oppression of Black people even after slavery and right down to today in the good ole USA."<BR/><BR/>Then he goes on to clarify his usage of "stupidity":<BR/><BR/>"So, when we witness a lot of this "stupidity" from more than a few white people in the U.S., this is not just something spontaneous--it is not just some kind of "personal prejudice" they developed all on their own--it stems from the underlying relations of white supremacy, which are built into the system in the U.S., and it has been consciously and systematically promoted by the ruling class whose system depends on and could not survive without this white supremacy and the corresponding racist ideas."<BR/><BR/>Also, underlying your entire argument is this point that because the RCP does not have a thousand ties to the black masses they are clearly wrong in line. This is what Lenin would call "Truth as an organizing principle" (referring to your assessment/criteria/etc.)...and he wasn't saying it was good. I have not seen the RCP claim to have these "thousands of ties", rather, they claim the necessity for this in bringing about radical change. <BR/><BR/>This kind of thinking of yours equates line with numbers. 10,000 white people could have gone down there on the basis of "white guilt" trying to rescue the poor black people (which I don't think the paper was doing) and that WOULD be wrong.<BR/><BR/>Also found it strange to be CRITICIZING the Revolution Newspaper for having a sense of urgency about the Jena rallies...as if they only use "urgency" to gain support from white people...as if the goal is simply to get more people involved...rather than actually ENDING this fucked up system. But again, I think this goes back to your own projection of 'truth as an organizing principle' on the RCP. <BR/><BR/>I also happen to think that White people should be called out on this shit. Not for whites to lead blacks...but for coming closer to ending this horrible oppression.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13362343294678122805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7725277743106317213.post-15374113114615262982008-02-04T16:10:00.000-05:002008-02-04T16:10:00.000-05:00Check out this RCP Jena blog:http://januaryinjena....Check out this RCP Jena blog:<BR/><BR/>http://januaryinjena.blogspot.com/2008/01/for-immediate-release-statement-from.html<BR/><BR/>There is some discussion in the comments about the veracity of the RCP's claims and charges regarding the Nationalist's march. The message was reprinted in Revolution under the title "No to KKKluckers! No to Nooses! Free the Jena 6! We Want a Better World!" <BR/><BR/>http://www.revcom.us/a/118/jena-photos-en.htmluliseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08794123844672055541noreply@blogger.com